In the third part of Facelift’s Soft Machine interview, we speak to all four members of the band about how they individually came to join the band, including a diversion into Fred Baker’s extensive intertwining with the Canterbury scene; the lowdown on the band’s virtuoso rhythm section, and some vignettes from recent American tours. Quotes here from interviews carried over the past few months, with additional material from an interview with Theo Travis for the prospective Hugh Hopper biography ‘Dedicated To You But You Weren’t Listening’.

Part 1 of the interview talking through ‘Thirteen’ track by track is here

Part 2 where the band talk in more depth about the album and Soft Machine in 2026 is here

Joining Soft Machine

The four current band members have found different routes into joining Soft Machine: John Etheridge joined in the mid Seventies as a replacement for Allan Holdsworth; Theo Travis had spent a number of years with Gong before joining Soft Machine Legacy but also had connections with all of the other band’s members; Fred Baker depped for Hugh Hopper in the Noughties before officially joining the band earlier this decade; and Asaf Sirkis was one of the many drummers initially commandeered to fill the considerable seat of John Marshall. Each musician has their own story about joining:

Asaf: I joined Soft Machine around 2016 when I had the honour of subbing for the late, great John Marshall, who couldn’t travel as often. By late 2022, when John retired, I officially joined the band. Being asked to play regularly was a thrill. Composing and performing with Soft Machine has been a wonderful experience. I love that we tour often, and with each tour, the band’s sound continues to evolve.

John: I wasn’t interested in Soft Machine in the early 70s – they didn’t have a guitar player. And then when Holdsworth joined I got interested and I went to see them about two months before I joined. I went down to the Rainbow and they were playing opposite Larry Coryell’s band and it was Holdsworth and Ratledge, Marshall, Babbington and Jenkins. I saw that and then next thing, lo and behold a couple of months later I’m bloody in it. Christ, I’ve got to do those guitar solos!

I had a way of playing that was different (from Holdsworth) but it was the same area that I was in. Though I felt like I was the right man for the job, I’m very glad that I wasn’t able to imitate that because I probably would have done! I was more of a sort of John McLaughlin man. So I kind of did it my way there. Again, people say, “Oh, you had your own style.” You I said, “Well, that’s just the only way I could play.”

And there were like two or three like (‘Hazard Profile’) in the set.. And I remember once I wasn’t feeling like it and the set was over in 25 minutes. “Oh, bloody hell. I’ve got to play and play and play.” So it certainly got my sort of longevity up.

Fred: I played with Soft Machine Legacy between 2008 and 2009. I had a tour pulled with Phil (Miller) – I was supposed to be doing a duo thing in America – we couldn’t get the visas – the gigs were there –  usual problem! Birgit (Fred’s partner) said, ‘oh John’s trying to get you, can you please tour with Soft Machine?’ and I said ‘John, I’m fine, I can do all these dates, I’d love to!”

Theo Travis had already established relationships with all 3 of the other members of the band: John Marshall, John Etheridge and Hugh Hopper.

Theo: The first time I met and did anything with Hugh, I think it was the King of Hearts in Norwich. It was a Burning Shed night of improvs and stuff and I did a set with Hugh and Bernard Wostheinrich.

There was a gig at the Stables in Wavendon. Elton (Dean) was in a coma and the gig was long-fixed and they just said, “could you do the gig?” Obviously they hoped that Elton would recover and be back. It was curious, it was Hugh who called, me, not John (Etheridge) or John (Marshall). Given that I’d known John and John for ages, I was surprised in a way. So then I did the rehearsal and the Stables gig and then Elton passed away and next week was the Pizza Express and I played on from then, there were quite a few other gigs in the diary in early spring and late summer.

John Marshall I met just before the ‘View From The Edge’ (solo) album. I knew Jeff Clyne, and Jeff had said “why not ask John Marshall?”, which I did and we had those rehearsals and did those recordings. So that would have been early ‘ 94. John Etheridge I’d done some jazz gigs around London and then I’d done some gigs in his band, and then I’d asked him to guest on the ‘Secret Island’ album which was in ‘96. So I’d done a lot with John from around ‘95 which is 10 years before Soft Machine.

Fred’s Canterbury connections

When Fred Baker joined Soft Machine he had already played with a number of Canterbury scene illuminati, including Elton Dean, Pip Pyle and Phil Miller in In Cahoots. But in fact his connections to Soft Machine musicians goes back much further.

Fred: in the late 70s I went on the some of the music courses down at the Stables in Wavendon. That’s where I met first met John, and a few days before, Allan Holdsworth, but Allan didn’t want to do it after a few days and did a bit of a runner and so they asked John to do it!

I was playing acoustic guitars and these guys came up to me. I was watching a lecture because I was just like an assistant tutor. It was great, It helped me get by with money and stuff. They said, “Oh, can you come and play?” (with Allan). I said, “Well, I want to listen to this lecture that Mike Gibbs is talking about!”.

So I got on there and I think I played classical guitar with Allan. It was a whole day while he could just play and talk. Then they asked John to come up and that’s how I met John. I ended up playing with him and then six months later Ric Sanders (also ex-Soft Machine) and him were looking for a bass player to play this tour back in 1980-1981 and somebody says, “oh I know this great bass player, some friend of mine in Birmingham”. I was studying classical guitar and composition at the college in 1979, at what is now the Conservatoire, it was the old Birmingham School of Music.

I was at this party. I’m just playing something on my acoustic guitar. And Ric said to me, “What are you doing next year?” And I was just a young guy 18/19, just doing me stuff and that’s how I ended up getting the gig with John when it was the Etheridge/Sanders group playing basically music from ‘2nd Vision’. And that was first time I came to Manchester, Band on the Wall.

It was progressive jazz funk rock. It was quite unique. I always thought it was a bit ahead of its time in some ways, some of the compositional ideas that Ric and John put together, that was their kind of thing after they left Softs.

We did this disastrous gig to launch the whole tour that year. It’s all recorded for BBC at Camden Roundhouse. I’m sure somebody sabotaged all the gear!

It must have been a few years later that I was doing a thing with Harry Beckett because Harry invited me to do BBC sessions with him and Elton was on it. Phil (Miller) was looking for a bass player –  they couldn’t find any because it’s difficult to play Phil’s music – they were struggling so they tried a few people out and Elton said, ‘why don’t you try Freddy’. And so it’s thanks to Elton really I ended up playing with Phil. I had that long time relationship with Elton and Pip, all those years.

I first joined Phil Miller’s band after Hugh left to do his own projects – he got very busy. He used to come and see me to see how I was getting on playing. That’s how I made friends with Hugh. But the other thing was: that gig I thought was a disaster – I didn’t know that Elton and Phil were in the audience! It came out years later. And they said “we thought you were good!”. So there’s ‘Baker’s Treat’, Elton wrote that for me, they used it on the first Soft Machine Legacy album (‘Live in Zaandam’)  And Hugh even says, “Oh, it’s a dedication to our mate.”

When Theo was young I was teaching with John and Jeff Clyne was there also. Theo came on as a student and we saw this sax player and we’re all saying ‘I want to have him, I want to have in my band’.

The rhythm section

Fred Baker is one half of a powerhouse rhythm section, the other being drummer Asaf Sirkis. Each member of the band talks about this pair’s impact, individually and collectively.

John: When we were picking people,  Fred was an obvious shoo-in really because I played with him for years. We had a lot of great drummers playing with us and the Asaf decision was definitely right, but Leonardo (Pavkovic) was quite a bit behind that as well. I mean, we all loved Asaf, but we’d had six or seven great great drummers playing with us when John had been ill, and we had to kind of decide. I’m absolutely sure we made the right decision on every level!

Asaf: Playing with Fred is a treat every time. He is such a creative musician and I feel that we work well as a rhythm section providing a solid but flexible ground for the band to play on.

Theo: Fred and Asaf is just a different beast to Fred and John (Marshall) or John and Roy (Babbington). There was this kind of feeling that they can do kind of anything and I should write stuff to justify that.

Obviously John Marshall is a brilliant player and has made amazing contributions to music and to Soft Machine and everything. Asaf is a very different generation. He’s a post click track generation where his timing not only is great on the click and in the studio but he studies the whole Indian Carnatic thing which is totally getting inside the complicated changing time signatures and having a total handle on that. But perhaps unlike many people who are very good with click tracks or very accurate in the studio, he’s also a very kind of melodic player and a comfortable free improviser. Often the more a drummer or musician’s into free improv, the less precise their technical skills are because their world is open, everything’s open, everything’s free. But Asaf absolutely does both and loves both and studies both. You can study forever, but he’s very much immersed in both worlds.

Fred is similar really – amazing facility, amazing time but he’s also broad-minded. Some people with his sort of technique wouldn’t particularly warm to the idea of a kind of thunderous overdrive, but he makes a bass sound like a Harley Davidson! He does it brilliantly. There’s this feeling that they could do anything.

Fred and Asaf are a great team. They’re a great rhythm section. They’re both very musical and they’re both very broad-minded. I don’t think there was a single thing that was presented to them that they did other than went, “Yeah, great. How about this? And like this, and what do you think of this?” They’re very up for it.

And their compositions are great. They both offered even more than these ones. I kind of became clear that I was the producer, not sure how. I think I just put more time into it really. and was kind of really keen on steering it. So both Asaf and Fred suggested or submitted tunes and I just chose ones that I thought would work best for the band and for the album.

John: John Marshall was an extraordinary physically powerful drummer in his heyday. Asaf is an extremely active percussionist – he really is active in the sense of being a very busy player which for us is perfect, that’s what we want – it’s very important. When I think about our rhythm sections – they’re not ‘nailing it down’ rhythm sections, that doesn’t suit the Soft Machine. We want people obviously with some virtuosity but also with a kind of commitment to something in the left field. Obviously we’re not completely left field, but the combination of Fred and Asaf is not a traditional rhythm section. That’s what we don’t want. Soft Machine never had one. Even in the days of Babbington and Marshall in the 70s. So it’s about what you might call character personality. Asaf is obviously a virtuoso and he plays with lots of people. He’s got this tremendous kind of commitment to percussion and playing and he’s always practicing which is great. It really gets me going like that, that’s important for me personally and you can hear it from the album. I’d say he doesn’t play like John Marshall but as it’s he’s like as if it was John Marshall in the 70s. Loads of creativity…

Fred: Asaf’s incredible, just as Robert (Wyatt) said. He’s just so up for the music and the joy of all that, having good fun with it, putting serious work into it but it’s like when I sit back and listen to the music, they’re the people I would put in if I wanted something that was the feel of the group. So creative as well and with compositions which are unique which goes back to the Robert thing.

I think we sorted out some of the times  on some of the early difficult stuff because he’s so fantastic with the Carnatic, Indian system of music. To get those difficult time frames, it’s better sometimes than trying to count. Everybody’s doing odd times, counting numbers. You can actually get 15/8 to feel right. You’re not chancing it. It’s still free, but it’s tightened up. I don’t know how to describe it…

Leonardo Moonjune

The story of Soft happenings over the last two decades is very much intertwined with that of Leonardo Pavkovic of MoonJune Records who celebrate their 25^th anniversary this summer with a festival in Teramo, Italy featuring both Gong, Soft Machine and Steve Hillage (as well as Beppe Crovella and Michel Delville performing a selection of pieces collectively known as ‘What’s Rattlin’’).

John: To recap: he put us together. It was his idea in 2004/2005 to reform this thing which didn’t take a lot of persauding. He’s been a kind of inspiration ever since, sort of keeping it rolling, thinking up ideas. He’s always been there, and always his enthusiasm is tremendous, you know, and he’s sort of he’s almost a Spengali., somebody who puts people together. This is him. This is what he does. So he’s put together this festival in Teramo in Italy. There’ll be kind of various events. We’ve got Gary Husband playing with us.

He’s a  powerful inspirational figure. We owe him a lot and we’re very glad that he’s sort of around really. It wouldn’t happen without him.

Fred: Leonardo – bless you! He was one of the guys that got the whole thing together in the first place. I remember when the band was getting together Soft Works, you know, with Elton (plus Hugh Hopper, John Marshall and Allan Holdsworth). I obviously knew Elton very well and then Allan and John when it all got together through that connection

American adventures

In 2023/4 Soft Machine undertook tours of the United States which were memorable for a number of reasons, both good and bad. The band’s struggles with visas meant that Fred Baker, at the last minute was unable to travel in 2023, meaning that Uruguayan-born multi-instrumentalist Beledo stepped in (and was namechecked on ‘Beledo Balado’ on ‘Thirteen’).

Fred: It was just getting the visas. The others got sorted out, it was all right because they had recently had some visas so it went through quicker, but mine was a completely new visa because I’ve not been anywhere near America for over 10 years, so it’s like your off the books. It’d be even trickier now. In the end I got it within seconds but it was a nightmare. The second tour was OK – the middle bit wasn’t quite right, but we still did that East coast one, it was good. Canada was great. People loved it in America – absolutely love the band. It’s just financially difficult to do. Nice clubs, theatres, gigs, And it really went down well. I remember Quebec. We did two things there. That was great.

We had a big van, like American size, shiny! We had all the hire gear – most bands are doing that, taking little modules and touring now. It’s so crazy trying to find the cheapest way to the cost efficiency of it all because in America there’s always a charge for every little thing.

Some distances weren’t too bad, some were a few hours, but there was a few long ones, six, seven hours and that and then I think a long one to get up to the border. But in general, it was good. Apart from when John and Asaf had to get their van back down to from Canada they did it in shifts. It was amazing. They actually did it.

I was fascinated by it. I think because of knowing each other for so long we could cope with it –  I think a young band would probably collapsed at the first because of the difficulties with everything – the finance.

John was an absolute star – he was doing a lot of the driving. Thanks to John and Theo a lot of things materialize. Putting the credit card up against guarantees. The other thing was we all got ripped off with things like credit cards, at hotels and things, scamming your numbers. I couldn’t believe it. I had to redeem them when I got back. Somebody tried it at one of these dodgy hotels.

John: Me driving a van, 77 years old! No, no, I’m 76. Driving a van from Quebec City via Washington to Trenton, New Jersey, long wheel-based transit with no proper GPS with a compromised credit card in America going through the various borders. I mean, that’s a story….

I asked Fred what sort of audiences came to see the band and musicians

Fred: I found it really amazing. They said we’ve got all your stuff with Phil (Miller) and  jazz things with Harry (Beckett) and  all this stuff. Genuine. You know the guys came from all sorts of places to get to some of the smallest gigs.. Like the one in LA, the Baked Potato. That’s amazing. One of the smallest places, but everybody plays there. The night before we were playing there, Alex Acuna was in there. You get these little pockets, then the normal kind of theaters and music clubs, you know, the big clubs, you know, sort of like Ronnie Scotts.

Whilst there are currently no American gigs on the roster, Soft Machine will be touring ‘Thirteen’ extensively within Europe throughout the rest of the year, including gigs in Italy, Portugal, France, Netherlands, Austria, Hungary and Switzerland as well as UK dates scattered throughout 2026.

Full dates at https://softmachine.org/touring/on-tour